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	<title>Comments on: A response to fans of the NYT &quot;Women Who Hit Hard&quot; piece</title>
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	<link>http://www.nicolemlavoi.com/a-response-to-fans-of-the-nyt-women-who-hit-hard-piece</link>
	<description>Nicole M. LaVoi, Ph.D.</description>
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		<title>By: Zennie</title>
		<link>http://www.nicolemlavoi.com/a-response-to-fans-of-the-nyt-women-who-hit-hard-piece#comment-2854</link>
		<dc:creator>Zennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2011 16:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicolemlavoi.com/?p=2306#comment-2854</guid>
		<description>The World-view message you seem to be sending is that it&#039;s bad for me as a guy to be sexually interested in female athletes and Women&#039;s Sports.  It&#039;s sad that we&#039;re coming to a point in society where some are attacking men for being straight.  But I will stand up  and assert that I not only have the right to find strong women hot, I will say so.   If it&#039;s OK for women to travel to baseball spring training to check out the players, it&#039;s OK for me as a man to watch women&#039;s sports to check out those players.  Thank you for the blog post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The World-view message you seem to be sending is that it&#8217;s bad for me as a guy to be sexually interested in female athletes and Women&#8217;s Sports.  It&#8217;s sad that we&#8217;re coming to a point in society where some are attacking men for being straight.  But I will stand up  and assert that I not only have the right to find strong women hot, I will say so.   If it&#8217;s OK for women to travel to baseball spring training to check out the players, it&#8217;s OK for me as a man to watch women&#8217;s sports to check out those players.  Thank you for the blog post.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.nicolemlavoi.com/a-response-to-fans-of-the-nyt-women-who-hit-hard-piece#comment-2840</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2011 02:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicolemlavoi.com/?p=2306#comment-2840</guid>
		<description>Nicole, thanks for the stimulating discussion.

As the lead cre­ative exec­u­tive in a brand­ing agency who has on many occa­sions used beau­ti­ful women (and men) in print ads and film to sell every­thing from bricks to bag­gage con­veyor sys­tems, I’d like to weigh in on the debate.

Shake­speare said. “All world is a stage. And all the men and women merely play­ers” I’ll extend this tru­ism to brand mar­ket­ing and adver­tis­ing: “All the mar­ket­place is a stage. And all the brands merely play­ers.” Just as actors don cos­tumes and makeup to assume their char­ac­ters, so do brands apply their own flat­ter­ing appur­te­nances in order to deliver their best performances.

The &quot;Strong is Beautiful&quot; campaign is nothing more than *that*. 

In a blog post that responds more deeply to your perspective, I even connect a line between this campaign and &quot;burger porn&quot;.

http://www.qvbrands.com/theory/brand-porn/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicole, thanks for the stimulating discussion.</p>
<p>As the lead cre­ative exec­u­tive in a brand­ing agency who has on many occa­sions used beau­ti­ful women (and men) in print ads and film to sell every­thing from bricks to bag­gage con­veyor sys­tems, I’d like to weigh in on the debate.</p>
<p>Shake­speare said. “All world is a stage. And all the men and women merely play­ers” I’ll extend this tru­ism to brand mar­ket­ing and adver­tis­ing: “All the mar­ket­place is a stage. And all the brands merely play­ers.” Just as actors don cos­tumes and makeup to assume their char­ac­ters, so do brands apply their own flat­ter­ing appur­te­nances in order to deliver their best performances.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Strong is Beautiful&#8221; campaign is nothing more than *that*. </p>
<p>In a blog post that responds more deeply to your perspective, I even connect a line between this campaign and &#8220;burger porn&#8221;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.qvbrands.com/theory/brand-porn/" rel="nofollow">http://www.qvbrands.com/theory/brand-porn/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cary</title>
		<link>http://www.nicolemlavoi.com/a-response-to-fans-of-the-nyt-women-who-hit-hard-piece#comment-2833</link>
		<dc:creator>Cary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 May 2011 22:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicolemlavoi.com/?p=2306#comment-2833</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re right that these sorts of depictions detract from the pure sport of tennis, but so do tennis associations, rankings, and everything else associated with selling the sport as entertainment. You could argue that having spectators detracts from the game as well. There are millions of male and female athletes who get little or no recognition either because the sports they enjoy are obscure, unprofitable, or they simply choose not to commercially exploit their talents. 

Frippery comes with anything that generates a lot of money. Women&#039;s tennis is great entertainment without it. I think it&#039;s better to watch then men&#039;s tennis, because of the generally longer rallys. I just wish they would play five sets. I never understood that. It&#039;s not like they are physically incapable of doing so-just the opposite.  I don&#039;t particularly care how hot the players are while the match is going on.  I also enjoy looking at these pictures and videos, which to me don&#039;t detract from the womens&#039; athletic accomplishments. They are just window dressing and part of the marketing of a very lucrative business and if they actually do help to  broaden the appeal of the game are probably a good thing. Nobody has to do the ads, or play on the tour, for that matter, if they are focused on the purity of the game. 

I think it&#039;s a matter of how prominent or exclusive these kinds of depictions are in the overall promotion of the sport. If tennis tournaments became more like Victoria&#039;s Secret spectacles, then the proper focus on athletic accomplishment will have been truly lost. As long as there is no pressure for any player to dress or act a certain way in order to succeed on the tour, then it&#039;s really up to the individual to decide how to participate in the marketing of themselves on the entertainment end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re right that these sorts of depictions detract from the pure sport of tennis, but so do tennis associations, rankings, and everything else associated with selling the sport as entertainment. You could argue that having spectators detracts from the game as well. There are millions of male and female athletes who get little or no recognition either because the sports they enjoy are obscure, unprofitable, or they simply choose not to commercially exploit their talents. </p>
<p>Frippery comes with anything that generates a lot of money. Women&#8217;s tennis is great entertainment without it. I think it&#8217;s better to watch then men&#8217;s tennis, because of the generally longer rallys. I just wish they would play five sets. I never understood that. It&#8217;s not like they are physically incapable of doing so-just the opposite.  I don&#8217;t particularly care how hot the players are while the match is going on.  I also enjoy looking at these pictures and videos, which to me don&#8217;t detract from the womens&#8217; athletic accomplishments. They are just window dressing and part of the marketing of a very lucrative business and if they actually do help to  broaden the appeal of the game are probably a good thing. Nobody has to do the ads, or play on the tour, for that matter, if they are focused on the purity of the game. </p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s a matter of how prominent or exclusive these kinds of depictions are in the overall promotion of the sport. If tennis tournaments became more like Victoria&#8217;s Secret spectacles, then the proper focus on athletic accomplishment will have been truly lost. As long as there is no pressure for any player to dress or act a certain way in order to succeed on the tour, then it&#8217;s really up to the individual to decide how to participate in the marketing of themselves on the entertainment end.</p>
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		<title>By: niamh</title>
		<link>http://www.nicolemlavoi.com/a-response-to-fans-of-the-nyt-women-who-hit-hard-piece#comment-600</link>
		<dc:creator>niamh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 13:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicolemlavoi.com/?p=2306#comment-600</guid>
		<description>Maybe the problem doesn&#039;t just lie with women - aren&#039;t we conditioned to associate sporting-fitness with sexuality? And for many female athletes taking the decision to pose in this way can be beneficial to their careers, definitely to their incomes. Some have posed for far more risque shots, at least here it is clear they are athletes. Do you remember the Vanity Fair cover for the men&#039;s world cup? Plus over here we have constant advertising imagery with the likes of Beckam (soccer) and local rugby stars - usually focused as much as on their attraction to women as their talents.
I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s right just because it exists, but if we say women athletes shouldn&#039;t get involved, are we cutting an income/promotion chance for them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the problem doesn&#8217;t just lie with women &#8211; aren&#8217;t we conditioned to associate sporting-fitness with sexuality? And for many female athletes taking the decision to pose in this way can be beneficial to their careers, definitely to their incomes. Some have posed for far more risque shots, at least here it is clear they are athletes. Do you remember the Vanity Fair cover for the men&#8217;s world cup? Plus over here we have constant advertising imagery with the likes of Beckam (soccer) and local rugby stars &#8211; usually focused as much as on their attraction to women as their talents.<br />
I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s right just because it exists, but if we say women athletes shouldn&#8217;t get involved, are we cutting an income/promotion chance for them?</p>
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		<title>By: Ethan Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.nicolemlavoi.com/a-response-to-fans-of-the-nyt-women-who-hit-hard-piece#comment-599</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethan Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 23:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicolemlavoi.com/?p=2306#comment-599</guid>
		<description>They took it down now, but there was a time that IndyCar.com had a unisex photo spread of drivers like Scott Dixon and Dario Franchitti that echoed the cheesecake photos of Danica Patrick. So in that regard, 1) it&#039;s not unprecedented that men got the same treatment (I defer to the critics as to whether it was &quot;weird&quot;) and 2) perhaps it was indeed a response to criticism about Danica Patrick getting the pin-up gal treatment while the guys got to be &quot;serious&quot; drivers and thus marginalizing Patrick all the more. I will note that Danica Patrick does sign up for photo shoots, recognizing the added revenue stream and can be rightly judged on the merits of her driving, which up to her eventual first IndyCar win wasn&#039;t very spectacular. (Similar to Peyton Manning before finally winning the Big One - lots of endorsements, no ring.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They took it down now, but there was a time that IndyCar.com had a unisex photo spread of drivers like Scott Dixon and Dario Franchitti that echoed the cheesecake photos of Danica Patrick. So in that regard, 1) it&#8217;s not unprecedented that men got the same treatment (I defer to the critics as to whether it was &#8220;weird&#8221;) and 2) perhaps it was indeed a response to criticism about Danica Patrick getting the pin-up gal treatment while the guys got to be &#8220;serious&#8221; drivers and thus marginalizing Patrick all the more. I will note that Danica Patrick does sign up for photo shoots, recognizing the added revenue stream and can be rightly judged on the merits of her driving, which up to her eventual first IndyCar win wasn&#8217;t very spectacular. (Similar to Peyton Manning before finally winning the Big One &#8211; lots of endorsements, no ring.)</p>
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		<title>By: nmlavoi</title>
		<link>http://www.nicolemlavoi.com/a-response-to-fans-of-the-nyt-women-who-hit-hard-piece#comment-598</link>
		<dc:creator>nmlavoi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicolemlavoi.com/?p=2306#comment-598</guid>
		<description>Malik-Thanks for the opinion! -nml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Malik-Thanks for the opinion! -nml</p>
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		<title>By: MalikG</title>
		<link>http://www.nicolemlavoi.com/a-response-to-fans-of-the-nyt-women-who-hit-hard-piece#comment-597</link>
		<dc:creator>MalikG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicolemlavoi.com/?p=2306#comment-597</guid>
		<description>Nicole,

As always, I appreciate your views even though I find myself opposed to them often.  Briefly, in this, I&#039;ll say that once again my problem is with you calling the NYT videos and coverage &quot;sofcore pornography&quot; that is &quot;pure exploitation of female athletes.&quot;

To, there is a difference between something being &quot;sexual&quot; and being &quot;sexualized&quot; -- specifically in this case I&#039;d argue that athletes ARE sexual but calling attention to that fact doesn&#039;t necessarily mean that they are being sexualized, especially in a negative connotation.

It is similar in some ways to the difference between something which is &quot;racial&quot; and &quot;racist&quot;.  There is a distinction which makes all the difference.

I&#039;d love to debate some of your other points, but I&#039;ll leave with this for now -- your hypothetical question about male tennis athletes being presented in the same way.

I would agree that if the male tennis players were presented in the exact same way that it would seem weird.  However, the reason it would seem weird would be because of the gender differences in the artistic presentation.

What I mean is that the female tennis players were presented in a specifically feminine way, and to present the male tennis players in a feminine way as well would certainly ring odd to most viewers.

However, if they were presented with the same regard in a specifically masculine way (which, honestly might not be ALL that different, depending on the artist) then no, I don&#039;t think that it would necessarily be weird.

It also wouldn&#039;t necessarily promote the sport, but would be interesting and likely well-viewed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicole,</p>
<p>As always, I appreciate your views even though I find myself opposed to them often.  Briefly, in this, I&#8217;ll say that once again my problem is with you calling the NYT videos and coverage &#8220;sofcore pornography&#8221; that is &#8220;pure exploitation of female athletes.&#8221;</p>
<p>To, there is a difference between something being &#8220;sexual&#8221; and being &#8220;sexualized&#8221; &#8212; specifically in this case I&#8217;d argue that athletes ARE sexual but calling attention to that fact doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that they are being sexualized, especially in a negative connotation.</p>
<p>It is similar in some ways to the difference between something which is &#8220;racial&#8221; and &#8220;racist&#8221;.  There is a distinction which makes all the difference.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to debate some of your other points, but I&#8217;ll leave with this for now &#8212; your hypothetical question about male tennis athletes being presented in the same way.</p>
<p>I would agree that if the male tennis players were presented in the exact same way that it would seem weird.  However, the reason it would seem weird would be because of the gender differences in the artistic presentation.</p>
<p>What I mean is that the female tennis players were presented in a specifically feminine way, and to present the male tennis players in a feminine way as well would certainly ring odd to most viewers.</p>
<p>However, if they were presented with the same regard in a specifically masculine way (which, honestly might not be ALL that different, depending on the artist) then no, I don&#8217;t think that it would necessarily be weird.</p>
<p>It also wouldn&#8217;t necessarily promote the sport, but would be interesting and likely well-viewed.</p>
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